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Marian de Knighton

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Sherwood



MessageSujet: Marian de Knighton Ven 26 Fév - 19:11

MARIAN DE KNIGHTON

    > Nom(s) VO: Marianne of Knighton
    > Nom(s) VF: Marian de Knighton
    > Date de naissance : 1171
    > Titre VO: Lady Marian of Knighton
    > Titre VF: Lady Marian de Knighton
    > Alias VO: The Nightwatchman
    > Alias VF: Le Veilleur de Nuit
    > Situation : Noble puis hors-la-loi après avoir tenté de tuer le shérif Vasey
    > Occupation(s) :
    -Donner en secret de l'argent, de la nourriture et des remèdes aux pauvres en tant que justicier masqué, le Veilleur de Nuit
    -Se bat pour l'Angleterre et le roi Richard
    > Époux : Robin de Locksley (alias Robin Hood)
    > Adresse : Manoir de Knighton (Knighton Hall) / Château de Nottingham / Forêt de Sherwood
    > Origines : Anglaises
    > Affiliations : Roi Richard / Outlaws
    > Description générale:
    ...
    ...

    > Description physique :

      Taille : Moyenne (1m68 / 5'5" pieds)
      Corpulence : Moyenne.
      Cheveux : Bruns
      Yeux : Bleus


    > Personnalité :
    ...

    > Histoire :
    ...

    > Famille :
    - Kate of Knighton (mère) †
    - Edward of Knighton (père) †
    - Robin Hood (mari) †
    - Archer (beau-frère)
    - Malcolm de Lockley (beau-père)

    > Relations :

    > Arme de prédilection : Épée / Arc
    > Combat : Épée, Dague, Stylet, Arc, Corps à Corps, Mains nues.

    > Première apparition: "Will You Tolerate This?"
    > Dernière apparition: "Something Worth Fighting For, Part 2"
    > Cause / Raison : Morte tuée par Guy de Gisborne
    > Nombre d'épisodes : 27/36

    > Crée par : Dominic Minghella et Foz Allan
    > Interprété par : Lucy Griffiths

    Plus ?
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    ...

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http://robin-hood.forumactif.com


Marian de Knighton
♣ Lady / Nightwatchman ♣


√ LOCALISATION : In the arms of Robin
√ NOMBRE DE PRINTEMPS : 26

► WE ARE ROBIN HOOD ◄
● Age: 21 printemps
● Titre: Noble
● Inventaire:

MessageSujet: Re: Marian de Knighton Lun 12 Avr - 18:02

    [COMMENTAIRES SUR L'ÉVOLUTION DU PERSONNAGE DE MARIAN]

    EN COURS DE TRADUCTION

    Il s'agit d'un sujet pour discuter de la vie de Marian en général. Ici nous pourrez parler plus de son personnage, de son caractère, de ses buts et aspirations dans la vie, etc.

    Qu'est-ce qui conduit réellement les actions de Marian ? Comment se sent-elle vis-à-vos des hommes qui l'entourent (son père, Robin, Guy, le Shérif et les autres hors-la-loi) ? Il est fort probable que certains d'entre vous sentent que Marian aimerait mieux rester une femme indépendante et ne pas se marier du tout, bien que cela soit ce que l'on attend d'elle.

    La mère de Marian est rarement mentionner et elle ne semble pas avoir d'amie fille (hormis peut-être Sarah et Djaq, et encore, sont-elles réellement proches d'elle à ce point ?). Cependant, nous n'avons pas l'impression qu'elle est un garçon manqué, en dépit de ses talents de combattante - ou le fait qu'elle porte des pantalons. Elle a toujours su rester vraiment et totalement une femme.

    Quels sont les points de vue politiques de Marian et ses buts dans la vie ? Dans la saison 1 nous la voyons parfois assister au conseil qui a lieu dans le château, avec son père. J'ai déjà fait plusieurs fois la remarque qu'en ces temps médiévaux, les femmes nobles pouvaient elles-mêmes diriger des terres quand les hommes étaient partis faire les guerres (ou lorsqu'elles étaient les seules héritières), aussi, une connaissance basique du droit et de la loi était une nécessité pour celles-ci, j'imagine. Je continue à me poser la question sur le pourquoi Vasey laissait Marian prendre part à ces réunions quand son père était encore en vie. Peut-être parce que la présence de la jeune femme était un moyen pour lui de contrôler son rival (en somme Edward) en laissant planer une menace sous-jacente de s'en prendre à elle s'il ose s'opposer à lui en public. Mais cela peut tenir aussi d'une faveur qu'il leur accorde étant donné qu'elle assistait au conseil lorsque son père était le shérif, mais je ne crois pas vraiment en cette offre qui semble bien trop gracieuse de sa part.

    N'hésitez pas à donner vos opinions sur ces différents points déjà.

    _____

    Comme vous pouvez le deviner, Marian est mon personnage féminin préféré de la série, suivie par Robin lui-même bien sûr. Je n'ai pas vraiment accroché à Marian au début (mais maintenant, je suis100% fan bien sûr, je l'adore!). J'aime les personnages féminins forts comme tout un chacun, mais ce type de personnages devient souvent vite trop stéréotypé et ils n'ont pas assez de faiblesses pour contrebalancer toutes leurs forces et qualités. Marian me semblait trop parfaite au début, mais petit à petit, j'ai réalisé qu'elle était bien plus complexe qu'elle ne semblait l'être du premier abord. Et c'est ce qui a commencé à la rendre vraiment intéressante à mes yeux.

    En fait, Marian est l'un des personnages les plus complexes de la série, même si les spectateurs (et les scénaristes) mettent du temps à le réaliser. Elle est peut-être celle qui est la plus proche de l'audience dans cette histoire, étant donné que c'est une femme très moderne enfermée dans un monde médiéval. Elle a ses frustrations et ses complexités et je pense que toutes les femmes qui regardent cette série peuvent s'identifier d'une manière ou d'une autre, à un moment ou à un autre, à elle. Cela sera difficile d'essayer de parler du personnage et de ne pas mentionner tous les autres sujets qui lui sont déjà dédiés sur un plan ou un autre, notamment sont concernant ses relations avec les hommes de sa vie (son père, Robin et Guy), mais je pense pouvoir y parvenir en restant uniquement du point de vue de ce personnage.

    _____

    Le fait que la mère de Marian est à peine mentionné... J'ai lu qu'il y a avait une fanfiction qui expliquait que la mère de Marian était morte en la mettant au monde et c'est pourquoi Marian agit de la manière dont elle agit avec les hommes, parce qu'elle ne veut pas être enceinte et risquer de mourir de cette manière. Cela semble vraiment intéressant et j'aimerais bien la trouver pour la lire...

    _____

    Une autre point sur lequel je voulais me pencher de manière à lancer un peu la discussion :

    Quand nous voyons Marian pour la première fois, elle recommande à Robin d'essayer de changer les choses en travaillant dans le système, bien que ce soit presque immédiatement clair qu'elle soit tout à fait enclin à saboter le système sans le défier directement (en aidant Robin à s'échapper dans les deux premiers épisodes de la série, et en étant bien sûr le Veilleur de Nuit). En fait elle le traite à plusieurs reprises d'idiot (fool) pour directement mépriser et défier le Shérif.

    Cependant dans l'épisode 4 de la saison 1 ("Parent Hood") Marian se rend à Clun pour délivrer de la nourriture au mépris de la quarantaine mise en place par le Shérif. Et quand Robin lui demande pourquoi elle n'y est pas allée en tant que Veilleur de Nuit, elle lui dit qu'il s'agissait d'"un cas d'urgence." Mais quoi - ils allaient tous mourir de faim d'ici la tombée de la nuit ? Je pense qu'il est assez clair qu'elle défie de manière vraiment délibérée le Shérif, en partie parce qu'elle veut lui forcer la main et lui faire retirer la quarantaine (elle ne peut pas continuer à faire des livraisons en tant que Veilleur de Nuit si le Shérif s'attend à ce que ces gens meurent de faim, et il aurait vite fait de doubler la garde pour se saisir du Veilleur de Nuit), mais aussi parce que je pense qu'elle est aiguillonnée par l'exemple de Robin. Elle nie être en compétition avec lui, mais dans une certaine mesure je pense qu'elle l'est.

    _____

    Tandis que j'étais en train d'écrire mon RP, je me suis demandée quelque chose. J'essayais de comprendre la politique de Marian et spécifiquement le fait qu'elle est soit si dévouée au Roi Richard et prête à risquer (et sacrifier) sa vie pour lui.

    Dans la saison 1, on n'a pas vraiment l'impression que Richard soit une cause majeure pour Marian. Elle croit, tout comme Robin (et Edward, j'en suis sûre), que si Richard retourne il est probable qu'il déposera Vasey et rétablira la justice, et elle est évidemment révoltée par la possibilité que Guy ait essayé de tuer le Roi - mais je ne pense pas qu'il y ait ici une quelconque extraordinaire dévotion personnelle pour Richard, juste une objection morale tout à fait normale face à la trahison et l'assassinat. Elle est aussi assez épouvantée face à la volonté de Robin de torturer et tuer Guy parce qu'il se peut qu'il ait été impliqué dans la tentative d'assassinat. Dans le finale de la saison 1, elle soutient bien évidemment la détermination de son père, Sir Edward, de stopper le Shérif lorsqu'il tentera de tuer le Roi, mais son centre principal est toujours sur sa préoccupation immédiate sont d'abord la fâcheuse situation dans laquelle elle se trouve (elle doit épouser Guy) et le danger que risque son père.


    Au débit de la saison 2, dans l'épisode 1, Marian semble en réalité quelque peu sceptique sur le fait "d'attendre un Roi qui, il faut le dire, ne parviendra peut-être jamais à rentrer" (waiting for a king who, let's face it, may or may not come home). Ensuite, elle reçoit un choc important : son monde loin-d'être-parfait mais tout de même confortable est mis en pièces comme Guy brûle sa maison et que le Shérif l'a, elle et son père emprisonnés au château (car c'est bien ce qu'ils sont, bien qu'ils ne soient pas définis comme prisonniers mais "assignés à résidence") ; la "vie normale" de Marian comme elle la connaissait et désormais révolue. L'autre choc majeur suit ensuite, lorsqu'elle croit, selon les dires du Shérif, que Robin est mort. Alors Robin revient vivant et cet échange a lieu :

    MARIAN: Robin!
    ROBIN: Who died?
    MARIAN: You did. The Sheriff said you were dead.
    ROBIN: The Sheriff - the Sheriff is plotting to kill the king. With his friends the Black Knights. They're already dividing England between themselves. You can't go back into the castle.
    MARIAN: We must get word to the King. Nottingham is not safe.
    ROBIN: It's not just Nottingham. Black Knights. The Black Knights, they're everywhere. They're taxing the poor of England to pay for an army of mercenaries.
    MARIAN: Well, we must stop them. I must go back to the castle.
    ROBIN: It's too dangerous!
    MARIAN: Robin! Having a spy on the inside when there's a coup being plotted is useful.
    ROBIN: No. For once, just listen to me!
    MARIAN: And my father is in there. Robin, I have to go back.
    ROBIN: Marian, I can't protect you in the castle.
    MARIAN: Two minutes ago I thought you were dead and I would have given anything for another chance to be with you.
    ROBIN: Well then, take that chance, and come with me.
    MARIAN: Listen...
    ROBIN: What?
    MARIAN: A little voice saying, “Yes, when the King is home, safe.”

    MARIAN: Robin !
    ROBIN: Qui est mort ?
    MARIAN: C'est toi ! Le Shérif a dit que tu étais mort !
    ROBIN: Le Shérif... le Shérif complote de tuer le Roi. Avec ses amis les Chevaliers Noirs, ils sont déjà en train de se partager l'Angleterre. Tu ne peux pas retourner au château !
    MARIAN: Il faut prévenir le Roi ! Nottingham n'est pas sûr.
    ROBIN: Ce n'est pas seulement Nottingham. Les Chevaliers Noirs... les Chevaliers Noirs sont partout! Ils taxent les pauvres d'Angleterre pour lever une armée de mercenaires.
    MARIAN: On ne peut pas les laisser faire, je dois retourner au château !
    ROBIN: Non, non! C'est trop dangereux !
    MARIAN: Robin, ça peut être utile d'avoir un espion dans la place s'il y a un complot !
    ROBIN: Non! Pour une fois tu vas m'écouter !
    MARIAN: Et mon père est là-bas. Robin , il faut que j'y aille !
    ROBIN: Marian, je ne pourrai pas te protéger dans le château.
    MARIAN: Il y a deux minutes, je te croyais mort et j'aurais donné n'importe quoi pour avoir une chance d'être auprès de toi.
    ROBIN: Mais alors saisis-là cette chance et viens avec moi.
    MARIAN: Ecoute...
    ROBIN: Quoi ?
    MARIAN: ...une petite voix qui dit: "D'accord, quand le Roi sera rentré sain et sauf."

    Donc maintenant Marian se consacre spécifiquement à la cause du Roi et décide de devenir un espion pour contrecarrer le coup. Je pense que cela arrive pour plusieurs raisons. Un - comme je l'ai déjà dit, son monde normal n'est plus, ce qui rend d'autant plus impérieux le fait de trouver une cause plus grande qu'elle, et aussi peut-être d'avoir la sensation que la perte qu'elle a subi, ainsi que son père, n'a pas été vaine. Deux, le choc à la pensée que Robin est mort peut bien l'avoir pousser encore plus loin à l'embrassement de sa cause comme la sienne propre. Trois, elle ne va probablement pas avoir autant de chance de poursuivre ses activités habituelles en tant que Veilleur de Nuit étant donné qu'elle est séquestrée dans le château, donc l'aide au pauvre est à peu près exclu - tandis qu'elle peut servir la cause du Roi en étant un espion. (Il est aussi probablement que Marian estime qu'elle peut faire une contribution vraiment unique dans ce rôle.) Enfin, la tyrannie de Vasey l'affecte maintenant plus que jamais, et lorsqu'elle apprend qu'il a des plans grandioses le rend d'autant plus dangereux et rend d'autant plus impérieux le besoin de l'arrêter. Au moment où le Pacte de Nottingham est signé, Marian devient assez proche de Robin en ce qui concerne la ferveur de Pro-Richard au vue de sa réaction furieuse face à cette "charte de traîtres" (the traitors' charter).

    Puis, vers la fin de la saison, la dévotion de Marian pour Richard (comme une cause, pas une personne) se voit une nouvelle fois augmentée alors que Sir Edward meurt pour cette cause, récupérant le Pacte de Nottingham. Je crois que Lucy a discuté de ça dans un des commentaires - qu'après cela, Marian est doublement motivée pour être une combattante, parce que sinon, cela signifierait que son père est mort en vain. Mais elle ne sera jamais aussi consumée par cette cause que Robin l'est bien entendu - dans l'épisode 11 de la saison 2, "Le Trésor de la Nation" (Treasure Of the Nation), est-elle sans aucun doute irritée par le fait que Robin considère que la mission de Richard soit prioritaire sur les gens de Locksley - mais une fois qu'elle apprend, dans l'épisode 12 de la saison 2 (A Good Day To Die), le complot sur l'assassinat du Roi, elle décide de passer la vitesse supérieure, elle est complètement préoccupée par l'idée d'arrêter cela ... au point où, vers la fin de l'épisode 13 de la saison 2, tuer Richard c'est "tuer l'Angleterre," et elle est prête à donner sa vie pour le sauver. Et c'est ce qu'elle fait. (Une chose je trouve vraiment frappante c'est que lorsque Robin se retrouve auprès d'elle après que Guy lui ait enfoncé l'épée dans le ventre, ses premiers mots sont "le Roi !" (the King!))

    Voilà, j'espère que cela a du sens pour vous aussi...

    _____

    Marian est un personnage fascinant, et pour un tas de raisons, un objet d'étude plein de contradictions. Quand je pense à Marian, je pense à la frustration - frustration des confinements dus à son rôle et à sa position sociale, frustration de voir les dommages que fait le Shérif aux gens autour d'elle, frustration aussi vis-à-vis des deux hommes de sa vie. Robin voudrait qu'elle abandonne son ancienne vie et vienne avec lui dans la forêt pour être à la fois son amante et un membre loyal de sa bande ; Guy la voit d'abord comme le mécanisme de sa rédemption et
    une façon de montrer que sa vie a été quelque chose d'autre qu'une vaine imposture. Marian ne veut ni l'un ni l'autre, mais elle ne peut pas s'empêcher de se sentir attirée par ses prétendants. Je pense qu'il y a un attrait physique indéniable entre elle et Guy, surtout parce qu'il la regarde clairement plus que Robin, en tant qu'objet de désir (et qu'il n'est pas mal non plus, surtout sans son armure...), mais elle est assez mûre pour reconnaître que ce ne sont pas les bases pour une vraie relation et l'attachement de Guy au Shérif et à sa cruauté la repousse complètement. De plus, elle a encore une autre source de frustration de la part d'un homme plus vieux - son père qui tente de la temporiser, qui a permis d'être mis à l'écart par Vasey et qui ne veut à présent rien de plus que de garder sa tête sur ses épaules et sa famille hors des ennuis.

    Marian prend l'identité secrète du Veilleur de Nuit apparemment comme une réaction à son sentiment d'impuissance - en tant que ce mystérieux bienfaiteur, elle peut créer des problèmes au Shérif, se battre contre le destin apparemment inévitable de devenir la femme de Guy, et se montre elle-même autrement que faible et indécise, façon dont elle perçoit son père. Quand Robin réapparaît, elle se montre initialement plein de dédain à son encontre et le voit comme un vain chasseur de gloire, mais comme je l'ai noté auparavant, elle commence à se sentir en compétition - c'est important pour elle qu'elle manifeste tant à Robin qu'à elle-même qu'elle peut aussi être audacieuse, ingénieuse et héroïque sans lui.

    Donc, en résumé, une des principaux traits qui définissent ce personnage est la frustration, aussi bien du fait de la limitation des options qu'elle a qu'avec les hommes de sa vie. Elle n'interagit pas vraiment beaucoup avec les femmes. J'ai aimé sa scène avec la fausse abbesse, et je suis vraiment déçue qu'elle n'ait jamais pu rencontrer Isabella. Ce qui lui importe le plus, c'est la liberté, mais je me demande si elle définit cette liberté en termes purement négatifs - être libérée de ses restrictions et être capable de faire ce qu'elle veut faire, plutôt que d'un point de vue positif, celui de faire et réaliser quelque chose de bien spécifique. Sa compassion envers les pauvres est tout à fait authentique (quoique, comme Robin, je ne pense pas qu'elle les considère vraiment comme des égaux non plus - elle restera toujours une femme de son ère et de sa classe), mais je pense que ses activités en tant que Veilleur de Nuit sont aussi motivées par le désir de liberté et celui de montrer qu'"elle peut aller à la guerre elle aussi" (can go to war too). Aussi, je pense qu'elle aime avoir cette identité secrète. Il doit y avoir un certain côté jouissif à ça. C'est un peu se moquer de ses ennemis (le Shérif et Guy) dans leur dos.

    Marian est certainement cella qui a la position sociale la plus précaire ; elle a tant à perdre. Edward lui a apparemment donné bien plus de liberté que la plupart des jeunes femmes obtiennent à cette époque. On pourrait penser qu'en réalité cela la dessert quand elle est hors de chez elle et à la merci de la colère d'hommes puissants.

    Et en ce qui concerne les hommes de sa vie ? Je crois que Robin était son bien-aimé depuis l'enfance et elle s'était toujours vu avec lui, elle s'est donc sans doute sentie un peu trahie qu'il a choisi l'héroïsme et la gloire de devenir un Croisé plutôt que de rester à Nottingham avec elle. Guy devient d'abord pour elle une façon de garder de se montrer autour du château, récolter des informations, et rendre Robin un peu jaloux (surtout si on revient sur la saison 1). Les émotions et les sentiments ne sont pas tout noires ou tout blancs dans la réalité, de même que dans les histoires. Vous n'avez jamais été attiré par quelqu'un qui a énormément de défauts ? N'est-ce pas ce qui est parfois si séduisant chez eux ? L'idée de récolter tant de bonté et de compréhension de la part de quelqu'un alors que tout le monde doute de vous et de votre capacité à être quelqu'un de bien et que vous même en parvenez à en douter, c'est ce qui se passe avec Guy. Il sait que Marian arrive à voir chez lui certaines qualités, et les encourage. Elle ne le repousse pas totalement et aimerait qu'il laisse libre court à sa compassion et à a douceur refoulés plutôt que de rester l'âme damnée du Shérif. Et il s'accroche à elle comme il s'accrocherait à une branche s'il était emporté par un courant fort dans une rivière. C'ets comme ça que je vois les choses en tous cas. Marian a besoin de lui dans son rôle d'espion, et lui a besoin d'elle pour devenir un homme meilleur. "She made me a batter man. She saw good when there was none" dit-il dans l'épisode 9 de la saison 3. Il s'agit de mon point de vue d'une situation idéale et pratiquement (si je peux me montrer si audacieuse) un désir basique de la nature de la femme : reformer et tenter de rendre les gens meilleurs.

    _____

    A présent, je serais intéressée de savoir ce que vous pensez de ces parole de Marian :


    ROBIN: So you never told me...when I was in the Holy Land, you must have had suitors.
    MARIAN: I must have.
    ROBIN: Well, it is surprising you are not married.
    MARIAN: It is. And yet, when one considers that marriage requires a man, perhaps not.


    ROBIN: J'y songe... Tu ne m'as jamais rien dit mais... quand j'étais en Terre Sainte, tu as probablement eu des soupirants?
    MARIAN: Oui, probablement.
    ROBIN: Je trouve surprenant que tu ne sois pas mariée.
    MARIAN: Très surprenant... ... Et pourtant, si l'on songe que pour se marier un homme est nécessaire, c'est pas si surprenant...

    Se moquait-elle juste de Robin ou disait-elle la vérité ? Pourquoi n'avons-nous pas plus entendu parler de ces soupirants ? En fait, je ne suis même pas certaine d'avoir correctement compris cette dernière ligne... Au débit, je croyais que Marian disait qu'elle n'était pas mariée parce qu'elle ne supportait pas les hommes, leur comportement, ou la manière dont ils agissaient avec elle. Mais on pourrait aussi considéré que c'est aussi le fait que les hommes sont "tous" partis se battre, mais cela ne tient pas avec le fait qu'elle ait eu des prétendants. Ou alors, elle pensait aussi implicitement, que c'est le fait que tous les hommes qui l'intéressent soit partis se battre, en l'occurrence, Robin. Je pense que le "pour se marier un homme est nécessaire" (marriage requires a man) de Marian était une référence à combien elle trouve inconvenables la plupart des hommes. Ils ont soif de pouvoir et de puissance ou de recherche la gloire en partant à la guerre... Peut-être dénigrait-elle la nature des hommes en général, au moins de ce qu'elle constate.

    Je pense que Robin et Marian, ont été fiancé lorsqu'ils étaient enfants, pas adolescents, et probablement par leurs familles respectives. Dans la saison 3, on découvre que Robin est devenu orphelin vers l'âge de 10 ans. Peut-être qu'Edward a senti que leurs fiançailles devraient être annulées à un certain point, étant donné que Robin était parti en Terre Sainte, libérant de cette manière Marian de leur promesse, pour que celle-ci puisse épouser quelqu'un d'autre (ce qu'elle ne fera jamais bien évidemment). Apparemment, il y a la tension palpable entre eux quand il revient des Croisades, et je pense que c'est le signe que Robin devait être d'une certaine manière d'accord avec l'annulation de leurs fiançailles alors que Marian ne l'était pas. Ou ... ... peut-être il n'avait pas de choix et a été forcé par Edward de retirer leurs fiançailles parce qu'il serait loin aux Croisades à une période où Marian devrait pouvoir se marier. Étant aussi obstinée qu'elle l'est, Marian a du complètement ignorer tous les prétendants que son père pouvait lui avoir suggéré dans l'espoir que Robin revienne. Pendant cette période de cette cinq longues années, ils ont tous les deux mûri et chacun d'entre eux ont redéfini leurs buts dans la vie. Je pense que Robin a en effet eu de la chance elle ne soit pas mariée, mais je pense aussi que Marian n'aurait pas voulu d'un autre homme.

    Du fait que leurs premières fiançailles aient été faites de manière implicite par leurs familles et ce quand ils étaient très jeunes, la signification de la demande en mariage de Robin dans la saison 2 ne perd pas de sa valeur. C'est vraiment sa première demande et de plus, ils sont désormais tous les deux adultes à présent, c'est simplement entre eux, aucune famille ou choix politique ne vient précipiter cette relation (c'est quand même beau l'amour... désolée, mais j'adore vraiment trop cette scène, elle remue tant d'émotions...).

    _____

    Does anyone else think that in all reality Vasey knew where Marians allegiances lay. When he finds out she was the Nightwatchman, he's not surprised and I think he knew all along that she and Robin were together. He seems to be fairly lenient with her too. When Marian tries to kill him, he doesn't kill her, something he would do with anyone else. Sure he drags her to the holy lands which gets her killed, but at least he didn't order the death. And, as I said before, Vasey did allow her to attend the nobles council, which was generally a privilege of only men in those times. It seems to me that Vasey wasn't half as hard as he could have been on Marian. I mean sure he burned her house down and got her dad killed but after looking at the things he didn't do... maybe Marian actually got off easy.

    And, I can't believe that no one saw her and Robin together after she ran away from her wedding to Guy. All the people of Locskley was there, applauding and . Particularly those two guards outside the castle door watching as her and Robin kissed. I guess they must have been blind. The realism was totally thrown out the window for the "drama" if the season 1 finale. Guy or one of his guards would have seen her escape with Robin. I suppose it's possible that no one except the villagers saw Robin and Marian escape on the horse after she ran from the church, but the kiss in front of the two guards -- right after "We can't be seen together" -- was bizarre. Maybe the guards were napping on the job? They did look slightly out of it… It is the same with the arrow in the season 2 episode 7. The Sheriff must have found it! So… anyway. Guy have known, in a way, for Robin and Marian…

    Vasey did seem to sense that Marian wasn't like most other women, wasn't there a line at some point he says he doesn't underestimate her like everyone else...? (Maybe it was from a fic, but either way it rang true). Perhaps he always hoped Marian could be useful to him, if for nothing else, but a means to manipulate Guy?

    We could say that "Lady Marian" is a role that Marian plays, and the Nightwatchman is another role that gives her an appealing alternative to the "Lady Marian" one. As for her political commitments, she seems to be genuinely devoted to King Richard's cause, but I wonder if those are her own ideas, or her father's and Robin's? Does she feel that, by fighting on Richard's behalf, she gets to overcome her limitations as a woman and be a warrior with the men?

    While Marian is clearly one of the "good guys" I think that at times her contradictions, and her lack of insight into herself, make her a bit of a hypocrite. She chides Robin for putting others in danger with his heroics, yet she knows that her actions have caused the death of Guy's sergeant, and surely she should at least pause to wonder if something like this has happened on other occasions too -- when her spying has led to the deaths of people who were falsely suspected of giving information to Robin (e.g. the strongroom builders in 2x02, Booby and the Beast).

    Another interesting paradox is that even as she desires independence, I think Marian also has a desire to be protected and made safe by a man -- someone who will protect her without limiting her freedom. She wants that from Sir Edward (except that he's too weak to protect her, though he's willing to give her freedom) and from Robin (who's usually too busy with his own agenda to protect her and does not necessarily respect her freedom, especially if it collides with that agenda); and I think a part of her likes the protection that Guy offers, except that she knows it will come at the price of her freedom.

    As for her feelings about her men:

    Robin. I think her feelings for him are a combination of wanting to recapture the innocent first love she shared with her childhood sweetheart Robin of Locksley, and her admiration for the hero Robin Hood and her faith in the cause that they share. Robin is the noble hero, the one who fights for the common good and stands for everything she admires, even if at the begginning she does not want to love him. Also, at least until Marian joins Robin in the forest, he represents freedom to her: the freedom of outlaw life in the woods, freedom from the restrictions that she faces daily, even the freedom (once she’s under arrest in the castle) to practically walk through walls and defy her imprisonment.

    At the same time, to me their dynamic always felt more like friends or even siblings than lovers, though some of their flirty moments are very cute and sweet. Obviously she cares for him very deeply and loves him but … is she does not want to love him, it is above her reason, she can't help it. So, even if at the beggining she wants to prevents her from this, she still love him. Also, while Robin cares about her very much, I think that his mission, the King, and England will come first for him, and it’s telling that when she joins him in the forest he treats her, more or less, as just another member of the team under his command. He is no longer a symbol of freedom, just another man giving her orders.

    Guy. In season 1, I think she starts out being frightened and even repulsed by him (he is the man who stands for everything she hates – the worst man in her world next to the Sheriff. However, I do think that she gradually becomes rather fascinated by him, and by the intense emotions that he has for her as far back as mid-season 1. I also think she starts to sense that there is more to him than the Sheriff’s dour black-clad henchman, and that he has the potential to be a better person. Somewhere toward the end of season 1 I think she starts to tell herself that she could bring out the better side of him and bring love and warmth into the life of a man who’s had very little of both. I also wonder if she feels, perhaps unconsciously, that she and Guy have something in common because they’re both frustrated, unfree, and ultimately powerless (even though he appears to have power). However, she fears the loss of freedom in marriage to him, and she is definitely repulsed by his darker side – his grasping ambition, his willingness to serve someone as vile as the Sheriff and justify his barbarism, his apparent treatment of her as a trophy he can buy with wealth. Marian totally gets the vibe that Guy is kind of using her more as a "trophy" and again, that's what she doesn't want from a man: she doesn't want to be controlled.

    In Season 2 I think her attempts to seek a reconciliation (even after he burns her house) are due to several things – she realizes it’s more useful to have him as a friend than an enemy, but I also think her anger at his actions wears off somewhat as she starts to see him once again as a man with vulnerabilities and a capacity for compassion (and perhaps realizes how much she hurt him). Obviously, she uses him in her capacity as a spy, but I don’t think that’s all there is to it. There’s the physical attraction of course, but I think she also cares about him and has a genuine interest in helping him become a better man. I find it interesting that even in “For England”, in a fairly urgent situation when she has to escape the castle or be turned over to Winchester, she takes the time to ask Guy why he continues to work for the Sheriff and to argue with him when he defends the Sheriff as “single-minded” and states that “humanity is weakness.” In “Walkabout” he finally seems to justify her faith in him, and her glowing expression when he returns to besieged Nottingham suggests, at least to me, some very warm feelings. I believe that Marian was sincere when she told Guy she cared about him in “Treasure of the Nation.” When Guy says, “Every day that I grew more and more to love you, you were betraying me,” he is technically correct – and yet I believe Marian is not lying when she vehemently responds, “It wasn’t like that!” (Of course all of that goes out the window in the season finale when she learns that he did try to kill the King and all sorts of other bad things happen.)

    Actually, I think Marian’s relationship to Robin and Guy illustrates her complexity and contradictions, and perhaps her hypocrisies too. I think that by the end of Season 2 (before the finale, that is), she is involved in these two parallel relationships and parallel worlds that she’s hoping will never collide. I’m not sure how she thinks this situation will be resolved, and maybe she doesn’t really think about it … she just hopes that somehow it will all work out. Maybe she’s almost as good at denial and wishful thinking as Guy is, and that’s saying a lot!

    _____

    I was gonna write some more relating to this thread but I'm kinda tired right now. More thoughts to come, as soon as I think of them ... I'll come back later and edited this message or join in and talk about some of the rest of the questions you bring up.


Dernière édition par Marian de Knighton le Jeu 15 Avr - 13:14, édité 8 fois
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Marian de Knighton
♣ Lady / Nightwatchman ♣


√ LOCALISATION : In the arms of Robin
√ NOMBRE DE PRINTEMPS : 26

► WE ARE ROBIN HOOD ◄
● Age: 21 printemps
● Titre: Noble
● Inventaire:

MessageSujet: Re: Marian de Knighton Mar 13 Avr - 3:06

    Okay, I'm a little embarrassed because I've ended up writing what looks like a treatise on Marian (this is only the first part of it), so if you actually get through this then you're a real trooper! I'll post in three parts; today and tomorrow, just so this doesn't come across as an essay...

    Here's how I (try to) understand Marian:

    I’m interested not just in stories, but how those stories are told – that is, why writers make the decisions that they do in shaping character and plot. And in the case of “Robin Hood”, I have read enough interviews and articles to know that the behind-the-scenes creation of this show was fraught with deadlines, stress, and disorganization. This leads to many of the plot-holes and inconsistencies in the storylines themselves, but when it came to characterization it was a double-edged sword. On the one hand, trying to figure out any of the characters on this show is an uphill battle simply because there’s a good chance the writers didn’t have a clear idea of what they were trying to achieve; on the other hand, the gaps in the storytelling allow the viewer to easily insert their own interpretation of characters and events – in fact, they’re forced to, otherwise very little of what goes on makes any sense.

    It’s hard to know how much of the show was planned out in advance, or to what extent the creators were simply winging it, but to me it seems that what we’re left with is character complexity born out of unclear writing. Character opinions and motivations are changing virtually all the time – example: in the first two episodes Marian is urging Robin to let the Locksley prisoners die so that he can concentrate on working the system from the outside; something Robin isn’t prepared to do. In later episodes, their stances on this issue are almost entirely reversed.

    Thankfully, the show was gifted with talented actors who were (mostly) successful in “grounding” their characters, even when whatever they were saying or doing was erratic and nonsensical. For this reason, there is no right or wrong answer when it comes to understanding these characters; simply because their creators never had a very strong grip on who they were or what made them tick. However, as far as I am able, I’m going to answer the “understanding Marian” question not as how I personally may see (or want to see) her, but what exactly the writers are attempting to achieve with her, as a character, as a device, and as an embodiment of certain ideas and values.

    Like everyone else here, I think the word that first comes to mind when thinking about Marian is “frustration.” This is only natural considering she’s a 21st century feminist living in an 11th century patriarchy. Right here is one of the major challenges to understanding these characters: trying to figure out by what standards we are to judge them; and it’s here that I think lies the writers’ fundamental problem with characterisation, particularly with its women characters.

    Marian is a woman living far, far before her time, in which her most pressing concern is to find and keep some sense of power and independence in her life. It’s for this reason that she goes out as the Nightwatchman, “technically” because she wants to help the poverty stricken masses, but just as much because it gives her a sense of purpose that goes beyond caring for her elderly father, doing embroidery in the living room, and being a future wife and mother to a man (something that probably threatens to take away her freedom even more). The Nightwatchman accords her a sense of freedom and self-worth.

    But the Nightwatchman is its own curse: she gets to help people, undermine her father and the system, get the thrills she wants, and feel important, but she has to do it anonymously. No one can ever know who she is or the gig is up – and this frustrates her.

    When Marian berates Robin for leaving England in order to chase glory in the Holy Land, I can’t help but feel that had she had the option, she would have been shipping out with him in the pursuit of fame and glory as well. She’s bitter because he broke of their engagement in pursuit of a “higher calling”, but also because he has the freedom to do things that she can’t.

    This continues into his newfound role as the “hero of the people.” She’s not so ego-centric that she needs to prevent or sabotage what he’s doing, but I do think it must sting her a little bit to see him get all the adulation, whilst she’s off in the shadows (in “Who Shot the Sheriff?” Robin is in the midst of the villagers kissing and thanking him whilst Marian watches from the trees). I think she might fear being sidelined as “Robin’s woman”, when in fact she’s been during his job of feeding the poor years before he turned up again – only to find that the Nightwatchman is now considered one of Hood’s men by Guy and the Sheriff!

    And as it turns out, she was right to be afraid of anonymity. When Robin returns to England after her death the villagers have gone so far as to build shrines to him. On the other hand, nobody seems to have even noticed that Marian’s been missing for the past three months – at least, not that we ever see. No one asks and no one tells. The Nightwatchman is not mentioned once throughout season 3, and appears to have been forgotten entirely.

    For this reason, I don’t think Marian is impressed very much by Robin’s heroics –paradoxically because she’s used to doing things in secret, and because she wishes she could be doing it Robin’s way. Even as she thinks he’s too “flashy”, she also admits to him in the cave that she’s somewhat hypocritical in the way that she criticizes his actions even as she mimics them. Everyone likes to be acknowledged for their good deeds, and often her caustic remarks about Robin’s “glory hounding,” seem to come from a person who is tired of being ignored and who is out to get just a little glory for herself.

    So Marian is in the impossible situation of being in competition with the person she loves the most.

    This leads to one of the most frustrating aspects of Marian’s personality: her complete inability to do what she’s told due to the real or imagined war she’s waging with the men in her life. We see it all the time, from undermining her father, to denying Guy, to arguing constantly with Robin. If you want Marian to do something, then the best way to get her to do it is to forbid her from doing it.

    I think this partly had to do with the writers’ rather confused portrayal of women in this show, in which they seemed to think that it would be sexist to have a “strong women” submit to a man’s authority. All the women characters on this show veer rather close into Mary Sue territory (some avoid it more successfully than others) in regards to their moral superiority and their rather surprising skills in regards to sword-fighting. Yet, although their “feistiness” is meant to be a strength, it is so often twisted into a weakness in regards to the stories that the women are put into, and the writers constantly falling back on the Damsel in Distress routine. This show is permeated all the way through with a rather mind-boggling blend of political correctness and blatant sexism.

    The obvious example of this would be in “Treasure of the Nation” in which Marian tells Robin that the castle forces have taken over a village and confiscated all the food. Robin currently has other concerns, so he cautions Marian to take no action. He goes so far as to extract her promise not to do anything without him, something that she immediately ignores by donning the Nightwatchman costume and going after the food stores herself. (What, the villagers can’t go a single day with a snack?)

    She does this in broad daylight, in a village surrounded by soldiers, with no clear plan as to how she’s going to drag large sacks of food into the forest by herself without anyone noticing. Naturally, she gets caught.

    This is very similar to the finale of Season 1 in which she breaks into Guy’s house on the eve of their wedding in order to steal his treasure. In this case it’s a little different considering she’s not directly disobeying a man’s orders not to, but she does describes the escapade as something to make her “more comfortable in her marriage.” Presumably stealing from Guy is going to make being his wife (complete with the expectation to “obey” her husband) more palatable, yet the idea of breaking into a man's house whilst he's still in it is a rather dubious course of action - and she's caught because of her own mistake in not disposing of the guard effectively enough.

    Likewise, there are also her actions in “Lardner’s Ring”. Robin climbs the tree in order to fetch the caged bird when Marian hears the castle guards approaching. Robin tells her to run and hide in the forest – instead she climbs up the tree and joins him in being completely trapped. Why does she do this? Because Robin has told her not to. Luckily for them the gang finds them in time; if not they’d both be dead.

    Even as far back as "Parenthood", the Sheriff forbids her from taking food to Clun; she disobeys, is threatened by guards... and Robin appears to disarm them and come up with a better way to distribute the food among the villagers.

    Do you see a pattern here? The interesting thing about all these times in which Marian deliberately disobeys the men in her life, (often simply for the sake of disobedience itself), is that they usually lead to Marian needing to be bailed out of trouble by men. She is stabbed as the Nightwatchman; Robin comes to her rescue and helps nurse her back to health. She climbs the tree to join Robin, which leads directly to her decision to return to the constricted environment of the castle after being “saved” by Gisborne. When Guy catches her as the Nightwatchman, her attempts at escape fail and it is Allan and Guy who secure her safety.

    What do we learn from Marian getting caught as the Nightwatchman in “Treasure of the Nation”? That Marian should have done what Robin told her to do. Probably not the message they were going for. As Robin says in the last episode of season 1: “every time you go out, you get arrested or stabbed or betrothed!” And he’s right. Guy tells her: “your willfulness will be the death of you!” And it was. Marian is her own worst enemy, for her attempts to secure her own freedom often lead directly to her incapacitation. To quote that guy in Shakespeare, she’s “hoisted by her own petard.” But to Marian, her headstrong determination not to let any man dictate what she can and can’t do is more important to uphold than simple common sense.

    Whether the writers themselves were aware of creating this conflict in their main female character is up for debate. In fact, I doubted they knew they were doing it; it’s just a coincidental side-effect that emerges from the fact that Marian’s character was meant to be two things at once: the traditional love interest and the spunky female lead. At the same time the writers are afraid to portray their strong female character submitting to male authority, they too often throw her into the damsel in distress role. It’s hard to be both things at once, and it’s pretty clear that there are two main plots to Marian: her role as the love interest to Guy and Robin, and her solo missions in helping the poor.

    Everyone has a major character fault, and this is Marian's: to her inability to stop fighting everyone, as if she thinks that just letting someone take care of her, or to take the lead is a direct insult to her own capabilities and an attempt to take away her limited freedom. Marian doesn't want power, but she does want to be important enough to be allowed to retain her freedom. She's so afraid of losing what little freedom she has that this fear has a direct bearing on the three major relationships that she has on the show, with her father, with Robin and with Guy (to be posted tomorrow...)


Dernière édition par Marian de Knighton le Mar 13 Avr - 3:21, édité 1 fois
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http://www.youtube.com/user/Nightwatchwoman


Marian de Knighton
♣ Lady / Nightwatchman ♣


√ LOCALISATION : In the arms of Robin
√ NOMBRE DE PRINTEMPS : 26

► WE ARE ROBIN HOOD ◄
● Age: 21 printemps
● Titre: Noble
● Inventaire:

MessageSujet: Re: Marian de Knighton Mar 13 Avr - 3:16

    Hi again. These are my thoughts on how I perceived Marian's feelings toward Robin; or rather, what the writers were trying achieve in portraying Marian's feelings toward Robin. I don’t really ascribe the theory that Marian “wants” to be in love with Robin based on the fact that he’s the designated hero who shares her values and goals, mainly because I don't think this level of subconscious understanding in a character ever crossed the writers' minds (though obviously, it's still a valid interpretation). Rather, based on Marian’s treatment on Robin in the first series, I’d say that “wanting” to love Robin is the last thing she desires.

    We know little about their pre-series life together; only that they were once betrothed, and that Robin broke their engagement in order to fight in the Holy Land. Naturally, when he returns after five years, Marian has been stewing for the same length of time over the fact that she’s been ditched in favour of war, duty, glory, and the King. Robin gets to go off and have the adventures, whilst she’s been sitting at home with only her father for company. So she’s not going to make Robin’s homecoming easy for him. He needs to know that she’s not some doormat that he can drop whenever it’s convenient and pick up again when he returns. Plus, whilst Robin has been off having "fun" in the Holy Land, England has gone to hell in a handbasket. England (and Marian) needed him, and he's failed them. Marian's had to do things on her own. Given the fact that she seems to have no female friends, I can't help but feel she's been desperately lonely, and she's hiding all this vulnerability with anger at Robin for abandoning her. And yet, it’s pretty clear that they’ve got unfinished business – had Robin simply been a “brother” to her, then there’s no way she’d be this ticked off about his absence, or his current behaviour. These are the squabbles of young and temperamental lovers.

    At this stage, I think Marian would like nothing more than to wash her hands of Robin (and men in general) and concentrate on what she’s doing as the Nightwatchman and the Lady of Knighton in her fight against poverty. And yet, her love for Robin is engrained in her. It’s a fundamental part of who she is. The reason she’s not married yet? It’s heavily implied that she simply wasn’t interested in marrying anyone else. And how does she explain the Nightwatchman to her father? She tells him that: “I decided that I could go to war, too. I could go to war against poverty.”

    That line: “I could go to war TOO. I could go to WAR against poverty.” She’s says it right there: her inspiration for becoming the Nightwatchman is Robin and her desire to do go to war too. The Night Watchman is born directly and explicitly out of Robin’s example. Whether she likes it or not (and she probably doesn't) the most individualistic part of Marian is linked to Robin.

    This is how the writers have presented Marian's feelings about Robin; and it’s very clear that Robin is an inextricable part of her ideals and choices and the way she lives her life. It's like she doesn't even know she's doing it, but when she does realise it, it annoys her to no end. She wants to be independent, not linked to the man who ran out on her. To admit her feelings would to be a weakness and to "let Robin win" undermines her equally strong desire to be free of all men and their constraints upon her. But it’s obviously quite clear that the writers are trying to convey that Marian is still carrying a torch for Robin. Why wouldn’t they? This is their alpha-couple. From a writer's perspective, I see no reason why Marian would be confused (just frustrated) about her feelings for Robin considering that the writers knew that Robin/Marian would be end-game. So I'm willing to take their scenes together at face-value. He loves her, she loves him, but the writers are adhering to the type of romance that’s generally known as “Slap Slap Kiss.”

    When a male and a female character spend a lot of time bickering and sniping at each other, the subtext is meant to indicate that they’re attracted to one another, the rationale being that they wouldn’t argue so much if they didn’t give a damn about each other. You see it all the time in fiction: Star Wars’ Han Solo and Princess Leia, Shakespeare’s Benedick and Beatrice, Harry Potter’s Ron and Hermione… you see how Robin and Marian easily fit into this trope. Likewise, Marian is a textbook example of what is known as a Tsundere. This is a Japanese term referring to a character that runs “hot and cold” and the word is a blend of the Japanese words for “irritable” and “love-struck.” This is a stock character for thousands of romantic movies, as it allows for characters to play both comedic and dramatic roles in regards to their love interest.
    The behaviour of a Tsundere stems from the conflict between her feelings for man and her reaction with herself for having those feelings. In Marian’s case she’s frustrated that she’s still attracted to Robin (particularly since so much about him infuriates her), but she can’t get rid of those feelings. Thus, she directs her anger at him, with a "it's your fault I'm feeling like this!" mentality. It’s pretty clear to me that Marian is still in love with Robin (to quote Elizabeth Bennet): “against her reason and against her will.” (This doesn’t seem to be a secret to anyone else either, as when Joe Lacey says to her gently: “You still love him, don’t you?” and Guy points out during his own proposal that “you were once betrothed to Robin Hood”).

    So if Robin/Marian ever come across as “not a good couple” due to a perceived lack or chemistry or an individual’s personal dislike for the “Slap Slap Kiss” type of lovers, then it’s incidental, and not a deliberate move on the writers’ behalf to make Robin/Marian less romantic or appealing than any other possible ship. Regardless of how well or how poorly you think Robin/Marian was portrayed on screen, it’s clear that the writers meant this to be the One True Pairing by following the basic outlines of the Slap Slap Kiss type of relationships, and writing Marian as a Tsundere.

    Now, even if their bickering got sometimes on my nerves, I certainly prefer Robin/Marian them to any other pairing that either character was involved in. Yet there were a number of reasons why I thought Marian was honestly “in love” with him, not as a hero she admires or the embodiment of her ideals and goals, nor as a symbol of freedom or as the childhood sweetheart she remembers, but as Robin himself.

    To paraphrase what I said in the Robin thread, a charge often levelled at him is that he puts King Richard and the mission before Marian. Now although it would have been nice to have had at least a couple of scenes in which Robin clarifies that Marian is the most important thing in the world to him, what goes unsaid is that Marian doesn’t really seem to have a problem with this. I can’t recall a single moment in which Marian seems to resent the fact that she has to “share” him with the people and their shared politics. Because just as often Marian is the one putting their long-term goals ahead of their immediate happiness. It was the reason for her going back to the castle, the conditions for their engagement, her refusal to follow him into the forest for so long, and a dozen other moments when they skip the sweet nothings and get straight down to business. This is something so important to the both of them that they don’t even have to talk about it. In fact, I don’t even believe that they think about it. It’s just what they do.

    And it’s their great tragedy. As young, idealistic people, they think they have all the time in the world. (As mentioned in my first post, I also think that Marian’s work ethic also stems from a little competition going on in regards to Robin – though she loves him, she’s a little sour about the fact that he’s the bona-fide hero, and she’s the one in the shadows – maybe this is why she manages to forge an alliance with Allan, for in many ways they’re both second to Robin, and resent it to different degrees. But as I said, this fear has nothing to do with any kind insecurity concerning her love for Robin – she understands that they’ve decided to put the needs of the country before their own personal happiness.)

    I think it’s telling that the more emotionally insecure Kate asks Robin to reassure her that he needs her more than her family does, to which he doesn’t answer (as opposed to the very clear sentiment he expresses to Marian in the second episode of season two: “I need you.”) Marian on the other hand obviously feels no need to ask Robin where his priorities lie. She never makes such a demand from Robin, just as he never does of her. Their relationship was a two-way street, and hints at a depth of understanding between them that doesn't need to be communicated in words.

    I also feel the need to point out that Robin’s fixation on the mission partly has to do with the fact that everything Robin does in regards to the mission is largely spurred on by his desire to get the King home so that he can marry Marian at the end of it.

    On a lighter note, there’s just something in the way Marian acts around Robin. After the initial prickly atmosphere between them, there’s a level of warmth and comfort that said a lot about how Marian felt about Robin and what he had to offer her. Starting at Season 2 (though there were plenty of other moments in Season 1) Marian often goes to Robin for comfort (after Lambert’s death), just as Robin goes to her for advice (in “Brothers in Arms”). They can shares jokes and smiles with one another; such as Robin’s amusement at Marian getting caught in the trap, and Marian’s response: punching him in the stomach; something that Robin just laughs off (seriously, I can’t imagine my boyfriend responding with a laugh if I punched him in the stomach). Or when she smiles and calls for the “guards!” in the first episode of season 2, forcing Robin to make a quick run for it, or tease him about making up little speeches at night. I also love the fact that their afterlife reunion is quite formal and hallowed...until Robin grabs her and spins her around in a circle while she laughs (*sob*). There's a sense of fun that always trickles through their interactions together that I think is such a poignant look at two young people who aren't allowed to be young due to their circumstances, but who sometimes get brief seconds of joy and humour. Robin has a look for Marian that no one else gets, and Marian just becomes luminous in his presence. They seem immensely relaxed and happy around each other on a very personal level (and I think they had a very sweet chemistry together – there were definitely a couple of moments when they were clearly having some rather naughty thoughts about the other!)

    And they have more in common than just their “good guy” status. They seem rather unique in their tendency to be on friendly terms with the peasantry, and to sincerely care for their well-being. In fact, the reason why the outlaws always found it so easy to sneak into the castle in disguise is because Guy and the Sheriff never bother to learn the names or check the faces of those inferior to them; yet Robin and Marian seem to know all the inhabits of Locksley by name. Likewise, Robin and Marian are both thrill-seekers. Is there any difference between Marian sneaking away at night to steal Gisborne’s gold before her wedding and Robin’s constant breaking-and-entering escapades? Not really; sadly the only real difference is that Robin is better (or luckier) at getting away with his crimes.

    Marian can barely contain her smile when Robin crashes her engagement party in “Tattoo, What Tattoo?” or in any of the times in which Robin seems to effortlessly walk through the walls of the castle in order to see her. As I said before, Robin is the promise of freedom. I love the scene in which she escapes her wedding on the back of Robin’s horse: yanking off her veil and letting it fly loose in her hand before casting it to the dust said it all.

    But then of course we come to "Get Carter", and Marian has some cold water splashed over her. But I don’t think their interactions in “Get Carter” were born out of the writers’ desire to show us that Robin and Marian were incompatible; rather it's the typical “getting used to the new situation” scenario that we see so often on television (like in sitcoms when the couple move into the same apartment for the first time). Plus, from what I gather, Marian explicitly states that her impulsive behaviour had less to Robin’s orders than it had to do with her trying to ignore her grief concerning her father. Sure, I’m disappointed in both of them for some of what they do in this episode: Robin’s sexist comments, Marian’s reckless behaviour, Robin not being the one to figure out the true source of Marian’s frustration, Marian’s constant disobedience (even though she gets lucky for a change when her disobedience ends up saving his life), the rather odd compromise that they come to at the end of the episode… but by “Lardner’s Ring” this friction seems to have been resolved. They are clearly working as a team of equals, and I believe Marian when she tells Robin that going back to the castle isn’t what she wants to do.

    I also think Robin deserves far more credit than he's due for the freedom he allows Marian. Sure, he could stand to improve, but the fact that he expects her to take orders in "Get Carter" comes with the fact that he's expecting her to follow him into combat situations which is not something a normal man of the time would expect of his woman. It's not like he just leaves her back at camp. Likewise, he obeys her when she tells him to leave Knighton in the first episode of season 2, and respects her decision to go back to the castle in "Lardner's Ring." Whenever she gives advice, he takes it; and he never questions any of the information she brings to him from the castle. And he may not be a huge fan of the Nightwatchman; but he never actually forbids her from doing it.

    Then of course there’s the much-maligned proposal. Well, it’s certainly not the best proposal in the world, but I don’t think that either Robin or the writers meant it to sound like Robin considered Marian an extension of himself (and I think it’s worth pointing out that Marian herself lampshades the inappropriateness of the proposal in both its words and setting; it’s all part and parcel of the “exasperated love” she feels for this man) although it certainly might sound that way when he says that his bow (that is, Marian) feels like "it was made for me." BUT, he follows this statement with the words: "it works both ways," insinuating that he was made for Marian. The most important part of the proposal is when Robin says: “I look after my bow because it protects and looks after me. Together we’re stronger;” something that Marian clearly nods her head in agreement to. Robin protects and loves Marian, just as Marian loves and protects him; a sentiment which is well in keeping with everything we’ve seen from their relationship throughout the show.

    By making an analogy between Marian and his bow, Robin is essentially drawing a connection between himself and that which is best about him (his ability to shoot) and what he can offer her (love and protection). Just as Marian’s idea of the Nightwatchman was directly inspired by Robin, Robin is now comparing her to his bow; thereby describing his love for her as quintessential part of who he is.

    (And heck, it’s still a better proposal than Guy’s: “What better way to grieve than to create new life?” which is essentially: “I know you’re upset about your dead father, but letting me knock you up will make you feel better.”)

    One of my favourite love-related quotes is that "love is not looking at each other, but looking out at the world together", and that sums up everything I like about Robin and Marian. They are not gooey, dreamy-eyed teenagers; they are hard-working, practical, unselfish people who have a job to do and have come to a silent agreement to deal with the problems in England before they allow time for themselves (though sometimes they let themselves get swept up in the moment: their kiss at the end of Season 1). For all these reasons, I don’t think Marian ever doubted Robin or his feelings for her; if she did there’s certainly no indication of that in the series. In fact, her awareness of these feelings in the both of them was the reason for her angry denial of him throughout most of Season 1; making him work for the reciprocation of her love before she simply gave it to him. Yet most of what Marian does stems for her abiding love for Robin: He was the reason she didn’t marry in his absence, he was the reason she became the Night Watchman, he was the reason she was murdered, and he was the reason that her spirit lingered in Sherwood, waiting for him. Loving Robin is a quintessential part of who she was, as a person and as a character.

    But because of the political correctness at work in this show, which led to the odd blend of feminism and sexism that permeated all the women characters, the writers often seemed to be afraid of letting Marian simply love Robin; almost as though by having her admit her feelings, or making it “too easy for him” would be to lesson her character. The writers were almost trapped by their portrayal of Marian: they had written Marian as stubborn and independent and aloof; and therefore letting her put down her guard and simply let herself love and be loved by Robin always had to be off-set by Marian’s constant battle against men who give her orders and her tendency to go off on her own to do rather risky things. The funny thing here is that the gender stereotypes are reversed, and it's the female that's scared of commitment. But as Robin reassures her in his proposal: loving each other isn’t going to make her weaker; it’s going to make them both stronger.
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MessageSujet: Re: Marian de Knighton Aujourd'hui à 10:54

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Marian de Knighton

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